Proposed Changes to ENM Static | Clan of the Angry Monkey (FFXI)

party changes

Submitted by Kitchel on Wed, 03/01/2006 - 00:44.

Tamara there is no one in this linkshell I admire more than you:)
However, judging by these posts, changes are not going to happen.
I know that helping others is your main goal. And no one single person goes out of there way to do more for others than you! You are the best. I would hate to see you leave the static or for it to break up! Maybe we could compromise in some way? I know that I for one have leveled up beyond my skills and could use some time to catch them up! I would propose a temporary vacation from these enm's, say four to six weeks off. In that time everyone could take the time they need to help others, level up skills, or any other thing that needs to be done. With a planned resumption date for all participants by all participants first. Maybe we can discuss this or another compromise plan before you make a decision to leave? What ever your decision, I want you to know that in my books you are the best ever!

Thersites comments

Submitted by rooster on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 23:29.

Oh my! What a predicament we have here, lol. While I can sympathise with Tamara's motives, I am afraid that adopting her rules would take us too far off our stated goal which is to efficiently get experience points for our party members. I think all our members can appreciate the benefits of being able to get this experience outside of the regular party grind. If some of the changes Tarama proposes have become "the norm" it is only because I am an easy going Galka who has been lax in enforcing the rules. Things that I expected would be a rare occurance (like inviting outside players to beat a promy boss) have been coming up every week. This causes more strife than some people may realise.

Here's the way it's going to be: This static party will fight enm-dem and enm-holla once a week. And perhaps add enm-mea if we all have time and enough animas. There are plenty of opportunities to help other players through the promys outside of this static party. If these guidelines are unacceptable, you are free to form your own static with whatever goals you have in mind. As I have said elsewhere, I believe this static has been as successful as it has been for two reasons: We have a highly competent group of players and a focussed mission. Most statics don't last nearly as long as ours has. Let's not ruin it by getting sidetracked. No changes to the mission of this static will occur without the unanimous consent of all members.

Regarding equipment costs, I believe that all jobs have certain costs associated with them. Whether it be gear, food, potions, ammo, ninja tools, or reraise rings. I'm not sure why reraise rings should be singled out for special treatment. But if it can be shown that the cost of these rings represents a special burden, then I suggest we consider paying for them with proceeds from the occassional enm drops we have been getting.

-Thersites

Reraise earring

Submitted by sam on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 23:35.

I was the one who singled it out simply because it is probably the most expensive single item that is necessary for the ENMs.

We're talking like 14k per ENM we do (that's 2 charges used, one for ascent, one for boss), or 28k per night if we do two.

As someone who's done RNG, NIN, WAR and MNK in these, I can say that far surpases anything I've personally had to spend on those jobs for the ENM.

Anyway... I agree with everything else Roosterx says, and I'm still down for EXP in ENM.

Vis Maior's Journeys
http://maior.samhart.net/

My comments

Submitted by sam on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 21:22.

As Thersty has said previously, the purpose of this ENM is to "get experience points for our members". We're not here to help others get through the Promies, to fight the boss battles, or anything else (well, except for maybe getting the map for the members).

Thus, we don't need to farm for anima, we don't need to fight the boss, we don't need to do Mea, we don't need to deviate.

If someone has a friend who needs a Promy, we need to discuss it well beforehand. We generally need and want a weeks notice for changes like this as it will require us to farm anima and get ready in other ways that we normally would not have to.

Speaking for myself, I will not be farming anima every week just for an ENM static. It's a silly waste of time when all I'm there for is EXP.

Tam, I think the problem is you're not treating this as an EXP static, which is all that it ever was intended to be. This is not a "let's help every schlob in every LS through Promy" static, our goal is EXP.

Now, one thing I'd personally like to see change is more contribution on the members towards the reraise earring. Personally, I think it's a necessary expense that should be shared by everyone in the group.

Vis Maior's Journeys
http://maior.samhart.net/

So long

Submitted by Tamara on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 23:14.

Okay; this will probably be my last week with this static.

I can support Promyvion-Dem; I am unwilling to tie down all of my Tuesday evening so that I am not allowed to help others with Promyvion, or whatever they need.

Misunderstandings?

Submitted by rooster on Fri, 03/03/2006 - 16:27.

I guess now would be a good time to try to clear the air about some long time misunderstandings. First of all I would like to thank Tamara for her contributions to this party and to the LS in general. As Kitchel reminds us, Tam is one of the most helpful players around.

Unfortunately however it seems that we don't see eye-to-eye regarding the goals of the enm static party. My intention was to create a simple experience points party so my friends would have the opportunity to level up outside of the regular party grind. Of course we fought a few boss battles initially to get our *party members* through the promies. And I was not opposed to *occasionally* helping an outsider, as long as it didn't interfere with our primary goal.

Now I know Tamara likes to be helpful to as many players as possible. But how helpful is it really, to place the goals of outside players ahead of the goals of your party members? Remember, your party members are the ones who have made the commitment to show up at a certain time every week to accomplish an agreed upon objective. From the very beginning of this static Tamara has been telling me that we need to do this-or-that crag because so-and-so needs a certain boss. I have tried all along to gently and politely steer the party back to its intended purpose, to no avail. Tamara? do you have any idea how pushy you can be sometimes? I'm sorry to have to say this, but it has caused me a great deal of stress.

Once again, this party is about efficiently getting experience points for our members. Whether that is best accomplished by fighting enm-dem, enm-holla, enm-mea, or maybe by some other means altogether, is open for discussion. The primary goal is not open to debate.

In view of Tamara's apparent desire to quit the party and the irreconcilable conflicts that have been continually arising, I have invited a new player to join us. I wish Tamara the best of luck, and hope that we can continue to be friends.

-Thersites

Intereresting reading...

Submitted by rooster on Sat, 03/04/2006 - 19:05.

If anyone thinks I am being unfair or unreasonable about all this, please check the following link posted by Tamara last Monday on the Lights Templar Linkshell website:

http://lightstemplar.nerdlife.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12245&highlight=#12245

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: Promyvion Mea ENM and Spire Boss
"Those who want to try for a Promyvion MEA ENM Fight and MEA Spire Boss Fight show up on Tuesday Evening at 8:10PM Eastern (5:10 PM Pacific) in Ru'Lude Gardens next to the lady who hands out Censers (her name is Venessa and she is by the stairs to Upper Jeuno). Get your MEA Censer while we wait."

"I make no guarantees but we will poll Anima Inventory (Hysteroanima and Psychoanima needed on participants) and try for both of these fights. Might take a period of negotiations but I think this could very well happen."

WOW, damn tam >.>

Submitted by Gaara on Sat, 03/04/2006 - 23:11.

Honestly before this i didnt have to much new to add to the situation, i really didnt want to see you go tam yer a cool person. Maybe a bit over the top at times but you have a great heart, always looking to find new ways to help people with whatever you can. This is a very admirable and noble propisition.

However, that post kinda pisses me off and I'll tell you why. The first and foremost reason being that you didnt consult with any of us not even Thersty about this. We are/were a team in this and with a change in the system as big as the one you purposed in the other LS forums without consulting us first is very disrespectful. Secondly Thersty has always been the leader of the static and the one to actually make statements of rule changes and even then he put it to a vote.

Honestly, though I know you meant well by yer actions Tam, I think that was a lil underhanded.

I know we are all adults here and this is just a petty issue that wont come between friends in the long run and in that light i hold no grudges and am not actually even angry. You will remain a good friend and I would like to remain yours as well. Though i think maybe it was bad judgement to place yourself in that kind of a pressured situation with the other ls when we had a exp enm static going that was 100% seperate from them.

Oh the 8:10 thingy

Submitted by Tamara on Sun, 03/05/2006 - 01:53.

The 8:10 thingy was to see if our group was willing, and Thersites said (on Monday night) he was not sure what would happen on Tuesday. With Thersites' Monday comment in mind, and with the fact that Milo made an honest attempt to make his runs happen (this was very late on Monday), when the folks I knew showed up on Tuesday at 8:10pm in the Gardens I told them they were going with Milotheshort (if they could get in).

So the actual situation was that by 8:20PM on Tuesday there were no guests, and I was available for only one run.

At 8:30pm Thersites told me our run was cancelled, which was fine with me; I had already tossed Tuesday's Guest(s) over to Milotheshorts Run. I had also made up my mind (after reading Maior's various comments) that if two runs were really going to be required for future Tuesdays this Event was probably not for me.

As to the points above - they were to solicit comments, and I guess I sure got some! =^_^=

I guess I don't understand the statement about Thersites "being unfair". I viewed it as his Party all along (in spite of what some seem to believe) and if Thersites does not like guests, and does not like the suggestions made above, and if he feels he wants to throw his lot in with Maior's "I need two runs" well then that is Theristes' right as the organizer. I know I have modified the Garrisons I host a bit.

I still view it as my right to announce this is probably (now actually) my last week.

So, as I said to Raytien, I don't feel bad about my decision; and I am sure Maior and Thersites don't feel bad about theirs. I actually think you all are (mostly) getting a bit too upset over a game; just an opinion. And almost none of you know that I hunted Thersites down on Monday Night to chat with him and tell him that Milo was going ahead with his runs - which had ramifications for me.

Thersites wants a reasonably stable Tuesday, I am more flexible, I understand that now.

Take care.

Thersites asked I read this Blog Entry

Submitted by Tamara on Sun, 03/05/2006 - 01:36.

Thersites asked I read this Blog Entry, which I have done =^_^=

"place yourself in that kind of a pressured situation with the other ls"

Other LS? I am afraid I don't understand. What I said for this week was that I wanted to be free to support Milotheshort on his Promyvion-Mea run; after we finished Promyvion-Dem of course. As for notice I hunted Thersites down on Monday Night, twenty-four hours in advance; Maior and Thersites classified this as last moment (see their comments). Really, I believe they are allowed to do that (since it is a judgement call).

The 8:10PM on Tuesday was to give me time to sort out whether Milotheshort was online (he was). I would have preferred that our group was more open to having folks come along, but by Monday night Thersites did not give me the confidence that it was.

Maior says he requires two Crags a Tuesday night (or he does not see the point), that's fine; I say I require a vote on the 2nd Tuesday Crag, that's fine too (in a democracy). Thersites, Maior, Raytien - all want to go with two mandatory crags, a week's notice on guests. No problem here that I see, except that Maior gets upset too easily.

I think we are all in agreement (except maybe on the Maior part).

Now as to what does peeve me a bit - I keep track of this web site and attempt to adjust. Maior knows very well he posted "I don't know what is going on with Milo's Promys" on Monday morning (that is the date I see on his post) before the Tuesday Run. Milotheshort responded. So I feel I take a bit of a spanking for TRYING TO ADAPT as the latest news changes for Clan Events on this web site.

Just a personal feeling, does not really change any of the decisions made here. I thought I would just express it.

Now I had stopped reading this thread since I had thought all decisions had already been reached. Thersites suggested I come here, you will have to tell me if you think I should come back (again) because I will probably go back to ignoring this thread.

Take care.

Let me get this straight...

Submitted by sam on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 23:32.

1) Thersty makes an EXP ENM static... this static was always about getting EXP.

2) You get to 50+ in that static without having to deal with normal parties...

3) After bringing in guests without much notice people get irritated.

4) Because people get irritated, you then lay down a shitload of unrealistic and unreasonable requests trying to take over Thersty's static and transform it into something else.

5) People balk at the requests, and so you quit.

...I'm sorry... I just wanted to make sure I had the sequence correct.

Oh well, I will say this, of all the statics I've been in, Thersty's lasted the longest. They normally get pulled apart long before by just this type of stuff.

BTW, for the record there was never anything in the static that prevented people from helping others out with Promy. It's just that the goal of the EXP ENM static was to get in and out with EXP as quickly as possible.

BTW, BTW, I'm sorry if I'm being pissy. I just cant believe how unreasonable all this is. Don't worry, I'll get over it :-)

Vis Maior's Journeys

http://maior.samhart.net/

actually they were suggestions

Submitted by Tamara on Sun, 03/05/2006 - 02:07.

"unreasonable requests"

Actually they were suggestions. And yes, it is Thersites' weekly Event and he can organize it as he sees fit; just as I have modified Garrison (whenever I am the host) to snag a pair of Mann Legs and Mann Feet during the first fight to go into group loot. Organizers are allowed to make up their own event rules as they go along in order to ensure a smooth flow.

So are we in agreement now? You need two Crags and Thersites (as organizer) wants to go that route; Tamara does not. You remain, I move on.

Tempest in a Teapot.

Thersites, have I done my reading as you asked me to? =^_^=

Thanks Tam

Submitted by rooster on Sun, 03/05/2006 - 21:35.

Thanks for reading and commenting. I wasn't trying to give you a hard time. I just thought you deserved to know the reasons behind our misunderstands. Sorry it worked out this way. Take care.